Let's Talk Legal

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I think you have to be really proactive about it,

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really aware of what regulations apply to you,

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and monitoring,

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actively monitoring whether you're in compliance with the statutes

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and regulations.

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Welcome to the nursing home podcast. Your Goto source

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for professional insights in the long term care industry.

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Hear from leaders and experts as they share current and practical

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insights to help make the most of your day. I'm the Longterm care financial

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specialist. What that means is I help people plan for the inevitable.

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Nobody wants to think about getting old, but it's possible that someday we might

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need a little bit of care. Here's your host. Nursing home Administrator Turnpodcaster

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Schmoel, Septimash.

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Okay, we're alive. Okay, so welcome

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to another live recording of the Nursing Home

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Podcast, the podcast that was created to answer

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the questions that were embarrassed to ask or don't know where to find

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the answers to. I was definitely that person who didn't

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know the answer to a lot of these questions, and I'm very happy to

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be able to provide this forum in order to really

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directly answer some of these questions. So in today's

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podcast, we're going to meet Jana Velante

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Walshack. Jana is a partner in the law firm

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of Fox Roth Trial in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Janna works primarily

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in the areas of regulatory compliance, white collar criminal defense,

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commercial litigation, and works with many healthcare

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clients. So, Jenna, welcome to the nursing home podcast.

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Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

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Well, thank you for taking some time to be here with us.

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And I'm going to jump actually before we jump right into it, if you don't

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mind, just take maybe 30 seconds or a minute. Just let our listeners

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just get to know you a little bit better about how you got to doing

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what you're doing right now and then we'll jump into the content

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of the show. Absolutely.

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So I started my career in law about

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eleven years ago, and I started as

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a litigator handling commercial lawsuits

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and also whitecollar criminal defense.

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So, federal grand jury,

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subpoenas, actions for fraud,

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things like that. And over the years,

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I began to represent more and more healthcare

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clients and eventually I also began to serve as the outside

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general counsel for a large healthcare client.

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And I think that sort of brings us up to date.

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I'm planning on talking about the False Claims Act,

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and I've certainly handled a number of those types of cases

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over the years. Got it? Got it.

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Okay, so I think just to get us started,

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just to paint the background here and just thank you

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to those who are watching live as you on LinkedIn. It's definitely appreciated.

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Excuse me. There we

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have it. So questions like this. So there are many people who enter the

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healthcare space, specifically nursing homes, and their goal is

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they want to provide outstanding care to their residents. They want

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to provide a place where their staff can make an honorable living

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doing something, making a difference, and they want to make

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sure that they can do all of this at a profit for those that are

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the nonprofit facilities, the for profit facilities.

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And at the same time, they want to make sure that they do not run

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into the legal challenges that we

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sometimes see in the news. They want to stay out of court,

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and like we said before, they certainly want to stay out of jail, but they

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know that these are serious.

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It's a complex little microcosm of society

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in these types of inpatient health care communities,

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whether it's a nursing home or hospital.

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So I guess the question would be, what are some of the

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most common pitfalls that maybe you've seen or heard about work with,

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that we can avoid? And then I also want to get to

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when it does happen, sometimes just knowing worst case

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scenario helps you better prepare for it. So what is the worst

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case scenario, and how do you deal with that? But let's start with the first

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thing. What are some things to avoid regards

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to the false claims act?

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Well, I like to

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maybe discuss things to do affirmative things

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that you can do, proactive things that you can do to try to avoid it

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rather than kind of posing it as a pitfall. Okay.

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I think the most important thing is to

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comply with applicable federal and state regulations.

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So I think the type of operators and administrators

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you were talking about who want to provide

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good quality patient care,

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want to help their residents, help the community, of course,

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have every intention, I think, of following federal

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and state regulations. But I think you

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have to be really proactive about it, really aware of

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what regulations apply to you,

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and actively monitoring

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whether you're in compliance with those statutes and regulations.

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One way to do that is we recommend

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comprehensive corporate compliance programs and policies

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that will implement those programs. So having someone

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knowledgeable, usually a lawyer, draw up a

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program for you that includes sort of all

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of the regulations you need to follow and what

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you need to do to follow them. I think having

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a comprehensive document like that is really helpful, and then having

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policies that you can give to your staff that they

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can follow so that everyone's in compliance

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with the corporate compliance program. One thing about a corporate

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compliance program, if you would end up in court, in particular,

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if you would end up being sued under the false claims

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act or indicted

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criminally or under criminal investigation,

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having a corporate compliance program is really helpful,

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but it's only helpful if you follow it.

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It's really bad to have a program like

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this and to not follow it, because that sort

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of has the opposite effect. It shows that you know what you should be doing,

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and you're not doing it. So hold on.

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Before we go further, let's just

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back up. What is the false claims act?

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So the False Claims Act has a long history.

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It was actually enacted under President Lincoln back during

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the Civil War. And the idea was to

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address fraud that was being perpetrated against the government

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and to sort of free up government resources.

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They let private individuals bring those suits,

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and under the False Claims Act, those private individuals are called relators.

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So I understand. And to simplify

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it, that means Snitchers,

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pretty much. I mean, a relater has

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to be someone who is an original source.

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So they have to show that they have some sort

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of inside information. Which is a whistleblower.

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Exactly, a whistleblower. And that is kind of one

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basis, if you're suited under the False Claims Act to try to get the

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suit thrown out, is by showing that the person who brought it,

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the relator, is not actually an original source of the information.

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But very often these people are disgruntled

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employees or former employees. They could be maybe the

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family members of a patient in your facility.

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So they're the ones who initiate the claim,

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but it's actually a claim being brought on behalf of the federal government.

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Okay, now let's just focus on this for a minute.

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So the False Claims Act is protecting government

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resources from being used and spent,

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I guess, in ways that don't I don't know, in ways

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that it shouldn't be spent. Or we're just saying, well, I'm a family

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member, or let's say I'm a disgruntled employee, I get fired for

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whatever it is, not doing my job. Now I'm upset. So I

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go online and I find out from other disgruntled employees

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in the disgruntled employees Facebook group or whatever it

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is, that they share their information. And I know that I have this massive power

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to act on behalf of the federal government to go and get

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my previous employers into some serious, serious trouble.

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So what exactly what type of claim what am I

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saying? They billed for services that they didn't provide.

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Maybe help us there. What you just

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said is a very common claim under the False Claims

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Act that you're billing for services that you didn't provide.

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There's another sort of more recent theory called the Worthless

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Services Doctrine, where a relator

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might claim that the services being provided were so substandard,

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they were so grossly negligent, that there were

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effectively no services being provided, and so

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that you were billing for worthless services.

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Okay, so that I can understand. In other words, you have to be somewhat educated

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in what's false claims and what's not false claims to make

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such a claim. So if I'm a CNA, and I

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was there and I saw that maybe I was overwhelmed at the number of

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residents that I had on my shift, or I didn't like the person I was

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reporting to where I terminated call outs, and as a result I was terminated.

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I don't know, typical anyone in the building,

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sometimes even the administrator, unless you're like the MDS, coordinator or something like that.

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You don't know what billing is going on.

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You can just assume, I guess, that whatever services are being provided are

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being billed to someone, which is not always the government. Right. It could be

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a private insurance as well. It could be a private pay, and then it wouldn't

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be relevant, but right, I think. Is that correct? You're right.

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And just like any other type of lawsuit,

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just because the suit is brought doesn't necessarily mean that it's meritorious.

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So just because a former

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employee, for example, goes and finds a

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lawyer to help them bring this suit, and they initiate this

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suit under the false claims act, which is often called a key tam, a key

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tam action. Just because they initiate a

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key tam action doesn't mean that it's meritorious,

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but you still nonetheless have to defend it.

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Okay? And maybe what they're claiming is that

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paperwork that had to be submitted to the government in order for

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the facility to be paid, they might be alleging that that

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paperwork was falsified, for instance. And that can be another basis

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for a suit under the False Claims Act.

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So basically, just to bring it down to my language,

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it would mean that they're saying, let's say that the MDS coordinator

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is just putting in random numbers or the coding in

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the nurse's notes. They're putting in what they know or what they were told,

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let's say by some outside company or the internal

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experts, that this is going to result in a higher

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payout. So therefore make sure to write this in the

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notes. Exactly. Up coding is

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another commonly used basis for a False

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Claims Acts suit. Okay? Upcoming means that they're coding someone

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as more clinically dependent than they

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really are. Is that what it means that they're asking

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for payment for a higher level of

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service than was actually provided?

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Okay. Is there any room assuming

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I'm going to jump around here a little bit?

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Let's say someone that your kiss you just said, and it was done not

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maliciously to steal more money from the government, but because

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somebody thought that that's the right way to document, or because they

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misinterpreted someone else's documentation and genuinely

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thought that this is really

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a reflection of the facts. Does that have any impact

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in the suit? And just before you respond, the importance

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of this question is, does every person have to be scared to

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do what they think is actually correct?

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So I think there's a two part answer there. Okay?

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For a claim under the

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False Claims Act to have merit, there needs to

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be C enter, which means knowledge. There needs to

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be knowledge that the claim is false

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or some sort of reckless disregard

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for the truth or the falsity of what's submitted to the

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government. Okay? But one

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thing that I would recommend is

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if a facility, if an operator catches wind

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that someone's making such allegations, to immediately

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investigate, to make sure for instance,

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that the services that were billed for were actually provided

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to immediately investigate complaints,

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whether they're coming from patients,

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family members of patients staff.

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And if you do find that those complaints have

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merit to correct any

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misconduct that happened and to try to adjust policies

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to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

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Okay, so is that

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in an effort to demonstrate that you're taking it seriously?

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Absolutely. Could that in an effort to

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demonstrate you're taking it seriously. And if you do find that

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there was a violation of the law, one thing that you can do

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and I think it's always wise to consult counsel first, but one thing that

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you can do is make a voluntary disclosure to the government to

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say, we investigated this. We found

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that there was a violation, we fixed it.

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And to the extent that there's any financial damages,

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as in any overpayment, that maybe the government

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paid more than they were supposed to to the facility returning

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that money to the government.

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Okay, now is there a liability by the

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facility? If they're going to start conducting

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their own internal investigation, that's going

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to be an admission of guilt by the very fact that they start taking

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it that level of seriousness.

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I wouldn't be concerned about that. I think just

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like having a good corporate compliance program and following it,

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investigating complaints, and then if

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you find that those complaints are valid, attempting to

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fix the problem I think is actually evidence of good

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faith that you're trying to do the right thing.

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OK, so now getting back to my disgruntled employee,

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they may know this and they may even be told by their attorney

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that their claim is going to go nowhere, but they're going to

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have to hire the facilities, can have to bring on some a legal

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team in order to defend themselves against this claim.

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And that itself is

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going to be a significant impact on the

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facility. So I don't want to give anyone any

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bad ideas here, but I'm just thinking if

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you're an operator, you want to make sure this is not

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legal advice, this is just operator to operator.

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I guess that you want to make sure that if there are these issues that

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you get to them before they have a chance. Just like with the Department of

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Public Health, if you have a family member that's upset about anything before

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they start going to Department of Public Health and just saying all the buzzwords that

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they know will get the Department of Public Health in the building and

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have them sniffing. If you reach out to them first and have a conversation with

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them and get to the root of why they're upset, which has nothing to do

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with whatever they're alleging is going on in the facility, many times

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you'll save yourself. It could be months of work,

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it could be tens of thousands of dollars or more.

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By doing that, So I mean that's just from an employee management

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standpoint. But let's go to the next step. Let's say you have someone in

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a facility, they're false find documentation.

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They're not sitting there in a black coat and

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sunglasses in a dark corner of the facility, maybe sitting

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in a regular office filling out their MDS or maybe an

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owner or an operator administrator telling CNN's

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how to document or anything like that. Let's assume that it's true

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and it goes to court and of

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course a good legal team will try to work on the case

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for them. I just want to get to worst case scenario.

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What happens?

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Well, there's, I guess a whole process with

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regard to the False Claims Act, and we can certainly get to

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worst case scenario. I will say, if you have that person

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kind of locked in their office doing things that they shouldn't be doing,

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it's again. Helpful to be able to show that they're acting against

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policy and that they should have known. You know,

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based on training, for instance, that what they were doing

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was against policy and that you, as a facility,

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weren't in any way condoning this condoning

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what they were doing. But worst case scenario,

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maybe you don't find out on your own that this is

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happening, then the

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way you might find out is through a civil investigative demand,

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which is the civil equivalent of a subpoena.

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It's a document that you get from the government ordering you to

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produce certain documents. And sometimes

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it could also ask for an

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interview of an employee,

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for instance. When you receive that civil

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investigative demand, I think it's important to

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hire experienced counsel who can help you respond to it,

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but who can also reach out to the government and find out what's

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going on, what are they investigating,

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and hopefully they can help you then. Strategize so you don't get to

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worst case scenario. Okay, go ahead.

20:08.770 --> 20:11.587
No, so just getting back to what you said in the beginning. So by having

20:11.650 --> 20:16.775
that compliance program, having that corporate compliance program working

20:18.712 --> 20:22.777
the way that it's being set up properly, that will

20:22.870 --> 20:26.225
affect, like you said,

20:26.737 --> 20:30.022
the lone wolf, so to speak, that you have this

20:30.055 --> 20:34.475
person. Let's assume that this person is

20:35.137 --> 20:39.217
acting alone and this person does end up not just acting alone, but they're doing

20:39.415 --> 20:43.072
what they're not supposed to be doing. But you're showing here's the

20:43.105 --> 20:47.122
sign in sheets that, you know, he or she was educated on

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our corporate compliance policy. And here's the policy. Here's where in

20:50.410 --> 20:54.832
the policy it says that what she's doing does not comply with the policy at

20:54.835 --> 20:58.177
least that much. You'd be in a much better place right now. I'm just

20:58.195 --> 21:01.927
connecting the dots. I'll tell you why. Because if I could

21:01.945 --> 21:05.687
just say things the way they are, many times people feel like the corporate compliance

21:06.262 --> 21:10.057
program or any of these types of programs that are

21:10.135 --> 21:15.877
pretty in binders is that

21:15.970 --> 21:19.402
they're not connected to reality and what's the purpose and how many

21:19.420 --> 21:22.775
people in the facility actually read through the entire binder and

21:23.212 --> 21:26.902
how connected. And it's not just corporate compliance. You can

21:26.920 --> 21:32.797
say the same thing about clinical operations. And if

21:32.830 --> 21:35.922
there's a fire in the building, are we going to start pulling out the binder?

21:36.117 --> 21:39.607
There's supposed to be training, it's supposed to be all these different things. And it

21:39.610 --> 21:42.575
is definitely a place to reference information.

21:44.062 --> 21:47.347
Right. I think it's a great first step to have your

21:47.380 --> 21:51.157
staff sign off that they've read this, but I think it's certainly

21:51.235 --> 21:55.100
not enough. I think the training

21:56.062 --> 21:59.872
is really, really important and

21:59.980 --> 22:04.147
policies that kind of take

22:04.255 --> 22:08.162
what's in the corporate compliance program and make it practical,

22:08.587 --> 22:12.127
make it something that the staff can follow in

22:12.145 --> 22:13.712
their day to day duties.

22:15.712 --> 22:19.522
OK, so just jumping back to where we

22:19.555 --> 22:23.197
were. So someone gets this False Claims Act,

22:23.305 --> 22:27.127
we find that someone is doing it maliciously. So having at

22:27.145 --> 22:31.412
least from our initial internal investigation,

22:32.812 --> 22:35.917
bringing in a legal team that has the ability to A,

22:36.040 --> 22:39.737
respond, and B, may have the right connections

22:40.387 --> 22:43.897
to be able to find out what is it that we're really looking at

22:43.930 --> 22:47.617
beyond just the document that we've received. Obviously, that can be

22:47.740 --> 22:51.277
extremely helpful. What would be the next step then? Just like,

22:51.295 --> 22:55.087
walk us through the process? I think the next step

22:55.150 --> 22:58.477
is if an

22:58.495 --> 23:02.077
internal investigation hasn't been done already, to sort of get to

23:02.095 --> 23:05.107
the bottom internally of what's going on.

23:05.260 --> 23:08.750
Council may want to assist with that,

23:09.412 --> 23:13.175
but next step is contacting the government.

23:14.587 --> 23:17.602
And the government has a

23:17.620 --> 23:21.637
choice to intervene in a false Claims that suit. So it started by

23:21.700 --> 23:25.252
a private party, but the government can sort of take over the

23:25.270 --> 23:29.442
suit. And so I think your council will want to convince

23:29.502 --> 23:32.000
the government not to intervene. If possible,

23:33.337 --> 23:36.742
perhaps file a motion to dismiss so that the case

23:36.790 --> 23:39.125
is hopefully over.

23:40.387 --> 23:44.992
Or if something did happen that

23:45.040 --> 23:48.397
makes this a meritorious claim, you may want to consider some sort of

23:48.430 --> 23:52.342
settlement with the government, and council can

23:52.465 --> 23:55.717
assist in negotiating that sort of settlement rather

23:55.765 --> 23:59.577
than going to trial. Under the False

23:59.607 --> 24:03.277
Claims Act, you can

24:03.295 --> 24:07.242
be liable for trouble damages. So if the government calculates

24:07.302 --> 24:10.947
the damages to be $1 million, you could be responsible

24:10.992 --> 24:14.727
for $3 million in damages. Plus there's

24:14.757 --> 24:19.282
a fine between $11,665

24:19.360 --> 24:23.322
per claim and $23,330 per claim.

24:23.517 --> 24:27.457
So a settlement can help bring those numbers down

24:27.535 --> 24:31.037
so that hopefully you're not paying trouble damages

24:32.062 --> 24:35.837
and hopefully paying a lesser amount in civil fines.

24:36.787 --> 24:39.877
This is on top of returning the funds that were

24:39.970 --> 24:42.650
obtained, in other words,

24:43.462 --> 24:47.362
yes. One thing

24:47.425 --> 24:50.962
that can be addressed in settlement negotiations with the government is

24:51.025 --> 24:54.792
how any funds that are returned are addressed.

24:54.927 --> 24:59.047
If the funds are returned before you

24:59.080 --> 25:02.712
have any idea that a false claims that suit has been brought,

25:02.862 --> 25:06.162
there is a better chance that those funds will be subtracted

25:06.312 --> 25:09.500
from anything you might need to pay later.

25:10.462 --> 25:11.450
Got it?

25:14.362 --> 25:18.402
Okay, so now if the government continuing

25:18.432 --> 25:21.397
on the worst case scenario here, the government decides that they do want they are

25:21.430 --> 25:25.077
interested in this case and they smell something brewing and they don't

25:25.107 --> 25:28.807
want this to be settled out of court, so then such a

25:28.810 --> 25:32.362
thing would go to trial. Right. Is that the next step? And then

25:32.425 --> 25:36.157
it would be government versus I

25:36.160 --> 25:39.657
guess it would depend if it's Medicaid or Medicare, if it's state or federal

25:39.747 --> 25:41.525
or how does that work?

25:42.112 --> 25:45.522
Well, the federal

25:45.567 --> 25:49.272
government can have a false

25:49.317 --> 25:53.157
claims that suit under Medicare or Medicaid,

25:53.322 --> 25:56.877
but there are also state law equivalents of the false

25:56.907 --> 26:00.247
Claims Act. So for instance, like, New York state

26:00.355 --> 26:04.925
has a New York False Claims Act and

26:05.437 --> 26:09.062
lawsuits can also be brought under the state law equivalents.

26:11.062 --> 26:14.617
Got it. Okay, so what about

26:14.665 --> 26:16.337
from a criminal standpoint,

26:19.762 --> 26:23.442
let's say from the ownership operators,

26:23.502 --> 26:27.097
administrator level, in other words, the management of

26:27.130 --> 26:30.772
the nursing home that is not actually doing the work but is

26:30.805 --> 26:35.277
overseeing the work that is done and that result in the questionable documentation

26:35.307 --> 26:39.072
or behavior. What level of personal liability

26:39.267 --> 26:42.697
are there? Nursing homeowners sitting in jail today for something that

26:42.730 --> 26:46.717
their employees have done? Because maybe the corporate compliance program

26:46.765 --> 26:50.272
wasn't where it should have been or maybe they didn't screen the employee properly or

26:50.305 --> 26:53.782
whatever. Yeah, tell us about that.

26:53.935 --> 26:57.522
There's something called the corporate officer doctrine,

26:57.642 --> 27:01.597
responsible corporate officer doctrine, where if

27:01.630 --> 27:05.382
you're sort of the one ultimately responsible

27:05.472 --> 27:09.922
for overseeing and monitoring the

27:09.955 --> 27:13.792
operations, you can be liable for

27:13.990 --> 27:17.600
the conduct of employees. So it is very important

27:17.962 --> 27:22.175
from both a civil perspective and a criminal perspective to

27:22.987 --> 27:26.202
just monitor things to the best of your ability

27:26.382 --> 27:30.587
and to really oversee your employees.

27:32.362 --> 27:36.612
In order for, let's say, management, a corporate

27:36.687 --> 27:39.912
officer, if that's the right term.

27:39.987 --> 27:44.002
In order for them to be criminally responsible, though, do you need like

27:44.020 --> 27:47.512
a case of gross negligence? Well, my question

27:47.575 --> 27:50.462
is people who are right now in that role,

27:50.962 --> 27:53.712
whether it's administrator or regional owner,

27:53.787 --> 27:57.352
manager, whatever the title is and whatever the relationship is

27:57.370 --> 28:00.702
with the building, there's a certain level of management

28:00.732 --> 28:03.877
in the building, a certain level management that's depending on how it's set

28:03.895 --> 28:06.512
up in a corporate structure.

28:07.612 --> 28:10.677
I'm trying to figure out how much they have to stay up at night worrying

28:10.782 --> 28:14.977
that someone that they hired and screened and did what they and

28:15.070 --> 28:18.922
is doing their job may be on their dime doing things

28:18.955 --> 28:22.722
they shouldn't be done. And besides a business concern

28:22.767 --> 28:26.097
because they could be, like you mentioned before, serious financial

28:26.217 --> 28:30.212
implications. But also from a criminal standpoint,

28:32.212 --> 28:35.107
I guess the question is how do they avoid that?

28:35.260 --> 28:38.452
Well, from a criminal standpoint, there's a kind of a higher

28:38.545 --> 28:40.937
level of knowledge required.

28:42.187 --> 28:45.875
So I think you want to be

28:47.287 --> 28:50.847
monitoring the things that you're expected

28:50.892 --> 28:55.797
to monitor, I guess not just blindly trusting

28:55.842 --> 28:59.075
employees to do things that you really should be aware of,

28:59.437 --> 29:02.912
but something that would typically be handled by an employee,

29:03.862 --> 29:07.192
that it would be sort of onerous for

29:07.315 --> 29:10.625
an owner to be in the weeds about.

29:11.062 --> 29:14.542
I would think you wouldn't be expected to know of

29:14.590 --> 29:18.202
that necessarily. Amazing.

29:18.370 --> 29:22.477
Okay, this is definitely very helpful of getting a better idea of

29:22.645 --> 29:28.407
the False Claims Act specifically, and also the levels

29:28.422 --> 29:32.197
of the legalities that any healthcare facility is

29:32.230 --> 29:35.782
responsible for. I just see the time here,

29:35.860 --> 29:39.427
and it's almost time to wrap up. Any final

29:39.595 --> 29:43.297
other issues that you feel that we should touch on before we wrap up today?

29:43.405 --> 29:46.782
Or any final thoughts about the False

29:46.797 --> 29:50.787
Claims Act or a practical piece of advice for operators

29:50.937 --> 29:52.700
just before we wrap things up?

29:53.887 --> 29:57.267
I think we've covered a lot of the best advice,

29:57.327 --> 30:01.212
but I would say good training for your employees,

30:01.362 --> 30:04.762
keep good records of what's being done,

30:04.825 --> 30:08.197
and encourage your employees to keep those records in

30:08.230 --> 30:12.657
real time. And discipline

30:12.822 --> 30:16.392
employees if you find out that they are responsible

30:16.452 --> 30:19.700
for any misconduct. Got it.

30:20.437 --> 30:23.602
So, I guess just before we go, first of all,

30:23.620 --> 30:27.427
thank you for your time and your expertise and sharing in this forum. I know

30:27.445 --> 30:31.147
this is a subject which is a little bit taboo and

30:31.180 --> 30:35.075
people don't really discuss it, not on the nursing home side. And also,

30:35.737 --> 30:39.397
it's sometimes difficult to get someone

30:39.430 --> 30:42.822
from the legal team to talk about it also unless

30:42.867 --> 30:46.222
you're actively involved in this stuff. But these are things that a lot of people

30:46.255 --> 30:50.077
are nervous about. And honestly, it pushes good people away from

30:50.095 --> 30:53.887
these types of businesses, because why should I deal with a health care business

30:53.950 --> 30:58.112
which has government funding and additional

30:58.912 --> 31:02.197
potential liability where I can do some other

31:02.230 --> 31:05.907
business? So just knowing the devil

31:05.922 --> 31:08.647
that you know and the devil that you don't know. Right. So just knowing what

31:08.680 --> 31:12.457
it is, I think kind of dust it off a

31:12.460 --> 31:16.002
little bit and makes it a little bit more approachable. So I really appreciate

31:16.032 --> 31:19.297
you for doing that. So thank you so much for joining this

31:19.330 --> 31:22.712
episode of the Nursing Home podcast.

31:23.212 --> 31:27.297
We'll definitely leave a link in the podcast

31:27.342 --> 31:30.117
in the show notes to Fox Rothschild,

31:30.177 --> 31:33.502
obviously. And if you don't, maybe just before you go, tell us a little bit

31:33.520 --> 31:37.175
about some of the work sorry, some of the work that you've actually done.

31:38.512 --> 31:42.162
The services just a little bit of the fox Rothschild

31:42.237 --> 31:46.117
does with nursing homes. Maybe just give us, like, a 32nd

31:46.165 --> 31:49.925
blur of what you actually do so that if people are interested

31:50.512 --> 31:54.837
or have such an allegation against their facility

31:54.912 --> 31:58.662
that they'll be able to at least have an initial conversation

31:58.737 --> 32:01.475
and see if there's something that makes sense.

32:02.287 --> 32:06.142
Absolutely. So Fox Rothschild has offices all over

32:06.190 --> 32:09.217
the country, and we have lawyers who practice in

32:09.415 --> 32:12.997
a wide variety of areas. So in terms of the services

32:13.105 --> 32:16.597
we can provide to nursing homes, we can

32:16.630 --> 32:18.875
provide all sorts of services,

32:20.512 --> 32:23.797
corporate employment, real estate. And what

32:23.830 --> 32:29.287
we were just discussing compliance services or

32:29.425 --> 32:32.952
services if you are involved in litigation

32:33.057 --> 32:37.027
or receive a subpoena or a

32:37.045 --> 32:40.250
civil investigative demand. Got it?

32:40.687 --> 32:45.050
Okay. And the best place to learn more information is, I guess,

32:45.412 --> 32:50.287
on the website, which is what it's Foxrothchild.com.

32:50.425 --> 32:54.097
Okay? Simple as that. All right, we'll definitely include that. Thank you so

32:54.130 --> 32:57.952
much for coming on the podcast again and sharing all

32:57.970 --> 33:01.042
of that information, first of all with me, but also

33:01.090 --> 33:04.377
with the listeners and viewers who have already joined

33:04.407 --> 33:09.247
the conversation and also those who are going to see it at the nursinghomepodcast.com.

33:09.280 --> 33:12.892
And as a reminder, this episode, as well as all past

33:12.940 --> 33:16.837
and future episodes are available at the nursing homepodcast.com

33:16.900 --> 33:20.677
as well as wherever you get your podcast. Thank you for

33:20.695 --> 33:23.902
joining us today for this program. Hope you have a great rest of

33:23.920 --> 33:24.650
your day.

33:37.387 --> 33:40.957
Now that you've enjoyed this episode of the nursing home

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